Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
aftger that…
WTF?!?!?!
(if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
"Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
> aftger that…
> WTF?!?!?!
> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
> auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
> now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
Basically, you tried, but you neither had the tool nor the knowledge to
adjust
the band properly. You dont know whether this has anything to do with the
problem or not.
Find an honest tranny specialist (if you can) and have him or her check this
out, before you find yourself walking.
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
> aftger that…
> WTF?!?!?!
> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
> auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
> now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
You are obviously not a car mechanic. Why are you working on this car? Is it
a hobby, like a Frankenstein guitar you experiment on, but really don’t use
for gigs because you have no idea whether it’ll make it through 3 songs?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:47:44 +0000, HLS wrote:
> "Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>> fine aftger that…
>> WTF?!?!?!
>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
> Basically, you tried, but you neither had the tool nor the knowledge to
> adjust
> the band properly. You dont know whether this has anything to do with the
> problem or not.
> Find an honest tranny specialist (if you can) and have him or her check
> this out, before you find yourself walking.
Basically, not worth it. $300 car.
The problem was jolting during the shift from 1-2. Manual said adjust the
band. I went to just where it gave resistance and backed off. Spec was 18
Ft Lbs, but the space was too small for my torque wrench.
Drive it till it drops, then buy another…I have an ’05 Scion tC and an
’88 Supra, and an ’89 Mazda to fall back on…
Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
> aftger that…
> WTF?!?!?!
> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
> auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
> now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
Why are you asking on a toyota newsgroup?
Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
> aftger that…
> WTF?!?!?!
> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
> auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
> now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in
mind of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted correctly.
If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the transmission.
Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can
wear enough to cause it.
Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
Just some thoughts.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>> fine aftger that…
>> WTF?!?!?!
>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
> adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in mind
> of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted correctly.
> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
> binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the transmission.
> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can wear
> enough to cause it.
> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
> Just some thoughts.
Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing was,
it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the throttle to
get it to kick-down.
I found this:
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1f/03/25/0900823d801...
("Brake Band Adjustment")
I found out this is right from the Subaru repair manual.
I didn’t have a torque wrench that would fit, so I went until it just
started to tighten and then backed off. It was so tight the car would
barely move.
I did it again, again going just tight, and then backed off 1 full turn.
Still tight. I backed off some more and it felt better; the jolting was
gone and the kick-down was fine. But now it gives me the binding problem;
when it shifts back to first the binding goes away and it drives normal…
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:59:41 +0000, Jeff wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>> fine aftger that…
>> WTF?!?!?!
>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
> Why are you asking on a toyota newsgroup?
Again, wishing someone that knows what a car is would answer. Instead I
get you…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:54:53 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>> fine aftger that…
>> WTF?!?!?!
>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
> You are obviously not a car mechanic. Why are you working on this car? Is
> it a hobby, like a Frankenstein guitar you experiment on, but really don’t
> use for gigs because you have no idea whether it’ll make it through 3
> songs?
Yup.
But I manage to fix about 90% of the things that go wrong with my cars.
Maybe if we didn’t fart around with the political bullshit and actually
talked cars, I could increase it to 99%.
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:LzmBj.5873$e52.275@trndny01…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>>> fine aftger that…
>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
>> adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in mind
>> of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted correctly.
>> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
>> binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the transmission.
>> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can wear
>> enough to cause it.
>> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
>> Just some thoughts.
> Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing was,
> it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the throttle to
> get it to kick-down.
In other words, it was NOT working fine, you knucklehead!!! :-)
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:47:44 +0000, HLS wrote:
>>"Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>>>Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>>>started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>>>fine aftger that…
>>>WTF?!?!?!
>>>(if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>>3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>>great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>Basically, you tried, but you neither had the tool nor the knowledge to
>>adjust
>>the band properly. You dont know whether this has anything to do with the
>>problem or not.
>>Find an honest tranny specialist (if you can) and have him or her check
>>this out, before you find yourself walking.
> Basically, not worth it. $300 car.
> The problem was jolting during the shift from 1-2. Manual said adjust the
> band. I went to just where it gave resistance and backed off. Spec was 18
> Ft Lbs, but the space was too small for my torque wrench.
> Drive it till it drops, then buy another…I have an ’05 Scion tC and an
> ’88 Supra, and an ’89 Mazda to fall back on…
You could try posting over at http://www.ultimatesubaru.org . Some of those
guys are pretty successful at keeping older Subes on the road.
Carl
–
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>>> fine aftger that…
>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
>> adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in mind
>> of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted correctly.
>> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
>> binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the transmission.
>> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can wear
>> enough to cause it.
>> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
>> Just some thoughts.
> Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing was,
> it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the throttle to
> get it to kick-down.
> I found this:
> http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1f/03/25/0900823d801...
> ("Brake Band Adjustment")
> I found out this is right from the Subaru repair manual.
> I didn’t have a torque wrench that would fit, so I went until it just
> started to tighten and then backed off. It was so tight the car would
> barely move.
> I did it again, again going just tight, and then backed off 1 full turn.
> Still tight. I backed off some more and it felt better; the jolting was
> gone and the kick-down was fine. But now it gives me the binding problem;
> when it shifts back to first the binding goes away and it drives normal…
I read the link Hachi and I believe you would get a better result in
removing the pan, and visually making sure that the band is barely
dragging on the drum. That 1/4 turn either way statement can be the
difference sometimes.
I know it’s a bit of a pain to remove the pan but I’m almost certain
that you will be able to see a part, if not most of the band.
While on your back and the car in neutral, use your foot to rotate the
drive wheel tire. You can see and feel the adjustment as you move the
adjuster screw. I’ve done this lots of times, but not on a Subaru.
When it just barely drags is the best adjustment. You can also check out
the contents of the pan and the band itself for wear and the band servo
operation as well.
It sounds like you almost have it fixed.
"Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:2FlBj.2754$dK3.800@trndny03…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:47:44 +0000, HLS wrote:
>> "Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>> news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>>> fine aftger that…
>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>> Basically, you tried, but you neither had the tool nor the knowledge to
>> adjust
>> the band properly. You dont know whether this has anything to do with the
>> problem or not.
>> Find an honest tranny specialist (if you can) and have him or her check
>> this out, before you find yourself walking.
> Basically, not worth it. $300 car.
> The problem was jolting during the shift from 1-2. Manual said adjust the
> band. I went to just where it gave resistance and backed off. Spec was 18
> Ft Lbs, but the space was too small for my torque wrench.
Don’t know if it helps or not but 18 Ft Lbs would be the same torque as a
properly tightened spark plug.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Drive it till it drops, then buy another…I have an ’05 Scion tC and an
> ’88 Supra, and an ’89 Mazda to fall back on…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:12:07 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>>> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the
>>>> tranny started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first
>>>> and ran fine aftger that…
>>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
>>> adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in
>>> mind of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted
>>> correctly.
>>> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
>>> binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the
>>> transmission.
>>> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can
>>> wear enough to cause it.
>>> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
>>> Just some thoughts.
>> Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing
>> was, it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the
>> throttle to get it to kick-down.
>> I found this:
>> http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1f/03/25/0900823d801...
>> ("Brake Band Adjustment")
>> I found out this is right from the Subaru repair manual. I didn’t have a
>> torque wrench that would fit, so I went until it just started to tighten
>> and then backed off. It was so tight the car would barely move.
>> I did it again, again going just tight, and then backed off 1 full turn.
>> Still tight. I backed off some more and it felt better; the jolting was
>> gone and the kick-down was fine. But now it gives me the binding
>> problem; when it shifts back to first the binding goes away and it
>> drives normal…
> I read the link Hachi and I believe you would get a better result in
> removing the pan, and visually making sure that the band is barely
> dragging on the drum. That 1/4 turn either way statement can be the
> difference sometimes.
Tomorrow is supposed to be nice. I think I’ll have a look…
> I know it’s a bit of a pain to remove the pan but I’m almost certain that
> you will be able to see a part, if not most of the band.
Actually, on this car it’s right out in the open. I’ll have to see if I
can get a gasket first. Some parts are plentiful, and others…
Of course, there’s alway FIPG!!! Worked on the Supra just fine.
> While on your back and the car in neutral, use your foot to rotate the
> drive wheel tire. You can see and feel the adjustment as you move the
> adjuster screw. I’ve done this lots of times, but not on a Subaru.
There’s 4 of them!!! Actually, it’s selectable, but in order to get there,
it has to go up on ramps.
> When it just barely drags is the best adjustment. You can also check out
> the contents of the pan and the band itself for wear and the band servo
> operation as well.
> It sounds like you almost have it fixed.
Thanks! I didn’t understand how this really worked, but I see (er,
understand) now! Kind of like the drag belt on a machine tool. Knowing how
something works sure makes it easier. I’m lucky, I have a vivid
imagination and can visualize very well. Now I have an idea what I’m
looking for.
It may be I tightened it so much that it catches somewhere and when the
trans goes back to first it frees it and ‘realigns’ it to where it’s
supposed to be. If I get done early tomorrow, I’ll have a look.
This car only really gets used in snow and for trips to the grocery store.
Once the snow stops for good, the plate comes off and goes on the Supra,
so I’ll have all summer. But thanks again!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:01:23 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:LzmBj.5873$e52.275@trndny01…
>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the
>>>> tranny started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first
>>>> and ran fine aftger that…
>>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
>>> adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in
>>> mind of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted
>>> correctly.
>>> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
>>> binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the
>>> transmission.
>>> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can
>>> wear enough to cause it.
>>> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
>>> Just some thoughts.
>> Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing
>> was, it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the
>> throttle to get it to kick-down.
> In other words, it was NOT working fine, you knucklehead!!! :-)
Well…it wasn’t binding, and the car rolled well, it was just jolting.
When I first put the car on the road, the "Hillholder" was working well,
but after 4,000 miles (YES! 4,000 miles from Jan 2 to March 3!!!) it
wasn’t holding on even small inclines.
And it wasn’t jolting, either, but the shifts were sort of smooth. The
shifts are REALLY smooth now.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:13:00 +0000, Mike wrote:
> "Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:2FlBj.2754$dK3.800@trndny03…
>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:47:44 +0000, HLS wrote:
>>> "Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>> news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the
>>>> tranny started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first
>>>> and ran fine aftger that…
>>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>> Basically, you tried, but you neither had the tool nor the knowledge to
>>> adjust
>>> the band properly. You dont know whether this has anything to do with
>>> the problem or not.
>>> Find an honest tranny specialist (if you can) and have him or her check
>>> this out, before you find yourself walking.
>> Basically, not worth it. $300 car.
>> The problem was jolting during the shift from 1-2. Manual said adjust
>> the band. I went to just where it gave resistance and backed off. Spec
>> was 18 Ft Lbs, but the space was too small for my torque wrench.
> Don’t know if it helps or not but 18 Ft Lbs would be the same torque as
> a
> properly tightened spark plug.
I didn’t even go that tight!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> Drive it till it drops, then buy another…I have an ’05 Scion tC and an
>> ’88 Supra, and an ’89 Mazda to fall back on…
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:06:50 +0000, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:47:44 +0000, HLS wrote:
>>>"Hachiroku ハチロク" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>>news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>>>>Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>>>>started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>>>>fine aftger that…
>>>>WTF?!?!?!
>>>>(if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>>>3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>>>great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>>Basically, you tried, but you neither had the tool nor the knowledge to
>>>adjust
>>>the band properly. You dont know whether this has anything to do with
>>>the problem or not.
>>>Find an honest tranny specialist (if you can) and have him or her check
>>>this out, before you find yourself walking.
>> Basically, not worth it. $300 car.
>> The problem was jolting during the shift from 1-2. Manual said adjust
>> the band. I went to just where it gave resistance and backed off. Spec
>> was 18 Ft Lbs, but the space was too small for my torque wrench.
>> Drive it till it drops, then buy another…I have an ’05 Scion tC and an
>> ’88 Supra, and an ’89 Mazda to fall back on…
> You could try posting over at http://www.ultimatesubaru.org . Some of those guys
> are pretty successful at keeping older Subes on the road.
> Carl
You keep telling me this, and I keep forgetting it! Yeah, I’ll have a look
and bookmark it!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:12:07 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>>>> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>>>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the
>>>>> tranny started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first
>>>>> and ran fine aftger that…
>>>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>>>>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>>>>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>>> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands are
>>>> adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea in
>>>> mind of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted
>>>> correctly.
>>>> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking or
>>>> binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the
>>>> transmission.
>>>> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can
>>>> wear enough to cause it.
>>>> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>> Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing
>>> was, it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the
>>> throttle to get it to kick-down.
>>> I found this:
>>> http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1f/03/25/0900823d801...
>>> ("Brake Band Adjustment")
>>> I found out this is right from the Subaru repair manual. I didn’t have a
>>> torque wrench that would fit, so I went until it just started to tighten
>>> and then backed off. It was so tight the car would barely move.
>>> I did it again, again going just tight, and then backed off 1 full turn.
>>> Still tight. I backed off some more and it felt better; the jolting was
>>> gone and the kick-down was fine. But now it gives me the binding
>>> problem; when it shifts back to first the binding goes away and it
>>> drives normal…
>> I read the link Hachi and I believe you would get a better result in
>> removing the pan, and visually making sure that the band is barely
>> dragging on the drum. That 1/4 turn either way statement can be the
>> difference sometimes.
> Tomorrow is supposed to be nice. I think I’ll have a look…
>> I know it’s a bit of a pain to remove the pan but I’m almost certain that
>> you will be able to see a part, if not most of the band.
> Actually, on this car it’s right out in the open. I’ll have to see if I
> can get a gasket first. Some parts are plentiful, and others…
> Of course, there’s alway FIPG!!! Worked on the Supra just fine.
>> While on your back and the car in neutral, use your foot to rotate the
>> drive wheel tire. You can see and feel the adjustment as you move the
>> adjuster screw. I’ve done this lots of times, but not on a Subaru.
> There’s 4 of them!!! Actually, it’s selectable, but in order to get there,
> it has to go up on ramps.
>> When it just barely drags is the best adjustment. You can also check out
>> the contents of the pan and the band itself for wear and the band servo
>> operation as well.
>> It sounds like you almost have it fixed.
> Thanks! I didn’t understand how this really worked, but I see (er,
> understand) now! Kind of like the drag belt on a machine tool. Knowing how
> something works sure makes it easier. I’m lucky, I have a vivid
> imagination and can visualize very well. Now I have an idea what I’m
> looking for.
> It may be I tightened it so much that it catches somewhere and when the
> trans goes back to first it frees it and ‘realigns’ it to where it’s
> supposed to be. If I get done early tomorrow, I’ll have a look.
> This car only really gets used in snow and for trips to the grocery store.
> Once the snow stops for good, the plate comes off and goes on the Supra,
> so I’ll have all summer. But thanks again!
You’re welcome, be careful under the car.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:43:33 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:12:07 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>>> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:36:21 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>>>>> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>>>>>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the
>>>>>> tranny started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first
>>>>>> and ran fine aftger that…
>>>>>> WTF?!?!?!
>>>>>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a
>>>>>> Suby 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2.
>>>>>> Shifts great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
>>>>> I don’t know how you adjusted the band, but all transmission bands
>>>>> are adjusted basically like a brake shoe, meaning, with the same idea
>>>>> in mind of a brake drum that barely drags on the shoes when adjusted
>>>>> correctly.
>>>>> If you still suspect the band, it’s probably the band servo leaking
>>>>> or binding. Sometimes a chore to change out, depending on the
>>>>> transmission.
>>>>> Check the governor for any binding. Sometimes plastic components can
>>>>> wear enough to cause it.
>>>>> Did you notice any plastic debris in the pan when you removed it?
>>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>> Well, the thing was working fine before I adjusted it. The only thing
>>>> was, it would jolt from 1st to 2nd, and you really had to slame the
>>>> throttle to get it to kick-down.
>>>> I found this:
>>>> http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1f/03/25/0900823d801...
>>>> ("Brake Band Adjustment")
>>>> I found out this is right from the Subaru repair manual. I didn’t have
>>>> a torque wrench that would fit, so I went until it just started to
>>>> tighten and then backed off. It was so tight the car would barely
>>>> move.
>>>> I did it again, again going just tight, and then backed off 1 full
>>>> turn. Still tight. I backed off some more and it felt better; the
>>>> jolting was gone and the kick-down was fine. But now it gives me the
>>>> binding problem; when it shifts back to first the binding goes away
>>>> and it drives normal…
>>> I read the link Hachi and I believe you would get a better result in
>>> removing the pan, and visually making sure that the band is barely
>>> dragging on the drum. That 1/4 turn either way statement can be the
>>> difference sometimes.
>> Tomorrow is supposed to be nice. I think I’ll have a look…
>>> I know it’s a bit of a pain to remove the pan but I’m almost certain
>>> that you will be able to see a part, if not most of the band.
>> Actually, on this car it’s right out in the open. I’ll have to see if I
>> can get a gasket first. Some parts are plentiful, and others…
>> Of course, there’s alway FIPG!!! Worked on the Supra just fine.
>>> While on your back and the car in neutral, use your foot to rotate the
>>> drive wheel tire. You can see and feel the adjustment as you move the
>>> adjuster screw. I’ve done this lots of times, but not on a Subaru.
>> There’s 4 of them!!! Actually, it’s selectable, but in order to get
>> there, it has to go up on ramps.
>>> When it just barely drags is the best adjustment. You can also check
>>> out the contents of the pan and the band itself for wear and the band
>>> servo operation as well.
>>> It sounds like you almost have it fixed.
>> Thanks! I didn’t understand how this really worked, but I see (er,
>> understand) now! Kind of like the drag belt on a machine tool. Knowing
>> how something works sure makes it easier. I’m lucky, I have a vivid
>> imagination and can visualize very well. Now I have an idea what I’m
>> looking for.
>> It may be I tightened it so much that it catches somewhere and when the
>> trans goes back to first it frees it and ‘realigns’ it to where it’s
>> supposed to be. If I get done early tomorrow, I’ll have a look.
>> This car only really gets used in snow and for trips to the grocery
>> store. Once the snow stops for good, the plate comes off and goes on the
>> Supra, so I’ll have all summer. But thanks again!
> You’re welcome, be careful under the car.
ALWAYS!!!!!
I still have a certain amount of ‘fear’ getting under a car, so I use
either two sets of stands and two jacks, or ramps and chocks. NEVER under
a jack alone!!!
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
> aftger that…
> WTF?!?!?!
> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
> auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
> now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
When you say "jumping" or "jolting" do you mean like a harsh shift? Harsh
shifts can be caused by bad accumulators, which are usually under the
transmission pan.
—
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
It is more than obvious to most folks I think that you need a torque
wrench for this job like the book says. A torque wrench is going to be
cheaper than a pan gasket kit I’ll bet and that gasket kit is going to
be a waste of time and money because the band ‘still’ will need to be
torqued properly to work. Maybe you will find something else wrong
inside, but again, the band ‘still’ will need to be torqued properly to
work!
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33×9.5 BFG Muds, ‘glass nose to tail in ’00
‘New’ frame in the works for ’08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran fine
> aftger that…
> WTF?!?!?!
> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby 3AT
> auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts great
> now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
"Mike Romain" <roma…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:47d69705$0$9705$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com…
> It is more than obvious to most folks I think that you need a torque
> wrench for this job like the book says. A torque wrench is going to be
> cheaper than a pan gasket kit I’ll bet and that gasket kit is going to be
> a waste of time and money because the band ‘still’ will need to be torqued
> properly to work. Maybe you will find something else wrong inside, but
> again, the band ‘still’ will need to be torqued properly to work!
Sometimes Autozone will have tools, perhaps torque wrenches included, which
they
will lend with a deposit, and reimburse when you bring it back. Maybe this
would
be a way to proceed.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
HLS wrote:
> "Mike Romain" <roma…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:47d69705$0$9705$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com…
>> It is more than obvious to most folks I think that you need a torque
>> wrench for this job like the book says. A torque wrench is going to
>> be cheaper than a pan gasket kit I’ll bet and that gasket kit is going
>> to be a waste of time and money because the band ‘still’ will need to
>> be torqued properly to work. Maybe you will find something else wrong
>> inside, but again, the band ‘still’ will need to be torqued properly
>> to work!
> Sometimes Autozone will have tools, perhaps torque wrenches included,
> which they
> will lend with a deposit, and reimburse when you bring it back. Maybe
> this would
> be a way to proceed.
The basic old fashioned bar types sell in the $20.00 range….
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33×9.5 BFG Muds, ‘glass nose to tail in ’00
‘New’ frame in the works for ’08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:37:11 -0400, Mike Romain wrote:
> HLS wrote:
>> "Mike Romain" <roma…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:47d69705$0$9705$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com…
>>> It is more than obvious to most folks I think that you need a torque
>>> wrench for this job like the book says. A torque wrench is going to be
>>> cheaper than a pan gasket kit I’ll bet and that gasket kit is going to
>>> be a waste of time and money because the band ‘still’ will need to be
>>> torqued properly to work. Maybe you will find something else wrong
>>> inside, but again, the band ‘still’ will need to be torqued properly to
>>> work!
>> Sometimes Autozone will have tools, perhaps torque wrenches included,
>> which they
>> will lend with a deposit, and reimburse when you bring it back. Maybe
>> this would
>> be a way to proceed.
> The basic old fashioned bar types sell in the $20.00 range….
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33×9.5 BFG Muds, ‘glass nose to tail in ’00 ‘New’ frame
> in the works for ’08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:
> http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
It has to be small. Unfortunately, the picture in the link looks like
there’s plenty of room..
Pictures can be deceiving…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:08:42 -0500, Ray O wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru…@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> news:zclBj.6422$y83.4286@trndny06…
>> Fired up the Subaru, went for a ride, about a mile from home the tranny
>> started binding..again…pulled over and it shifted to first and ran
>> fine aftger that…
>> WTF?!?!?!
>> (if you didn’t see the other post, I adjusted the brake band on a Suby
>> 3AT auto trans to stop it from jumping when shifting from 1-2. Shifts
>> great now, just binds <1 mile and then runs fine…)
> When you say "jumping" or "jolting" do you mean like a harsh shift? Harsh
> shifts can be caused by bad accumulators, which are usually under the
> transmission pan.
This is worse than a harsh shift. It slams from 1-2.
The repair manual suggested the band adjustment, and it seems to have
worked…for the most part.
"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolfer…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0fnj598207hr000@news.east.cox.net…
> witfal, 3/10/2008,9:19:36 PM, wrote:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/t_shirt_gun
> Where would you draw the line on what kinds of t-shirts a teenager can
> wear to school? Would t-shirts with pornographic images or suggestive
> words be acceptable? How about ones with offensive words? What about
> clothing in general? Are pants that hang below the crack or other
> clothes that show lots of skin be acceptable?
> Should kids be allowed to wear whatever they want to school?
How do ANY of the above relate to wearing a patriotic t-shirt? From the
sound of it, the shirt in no way encouraged any kind of school violence.
"witfal" <nos…@all4.me> wrote in message
news:fr4rn5$qn1$2@news.albasani.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On 2008-03-10 19:40:13 -0700, "Reasoned Insanity" <nowh…@cox.net> said:
>> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolfer…@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:xn0fnj598207hr000@news.east.cox.net…
>>> witfal, 3/10/2008,9:19:36 PM, wrote:
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/t_shirt_gun
>>> Where would you draw the line on what kinds of t-shirts a teenager can
>>> wear to school? Would t-shirts with pornographic images or suggestive
>>> words be acceptable? How about ones with offensive words? What about
>>> clothing in general? Are pants that hang below the crack or other
>>> clothes that show lots of skin be acceptable?
>>> Should kids be allowed to wear whatever they want to school?
>> How do ANY of the above relate to wearing a patriotic t-shirt? From the
>> sound of it, the shirt in no way encouraged any kind of school violence.
> Bingo.
Not exactly. There are rights, and then there’s good taste. My neighbor’s a
funeral director, and occasionally, he comes up with a really good funeral
joke. Would he be within his rights to tell such a joke to a grieving
family? Of course. Would he be a moron to do so? Of course.
Considering how many shootings there’ve been in schools, the kid was a
moron. He shouldn’t have been punished, but nobody else should’ve been
punished for calling him a moron, either.
This is not a free speech issue. Remember this? "It’s so nice to have a Jew
in the family!"
Free speech, yes. Moron, yes.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
witfal, 3/10/2008,10:44:33 PM, wrote:
> On 2008-03-10 19:34:56 -0700, "badgolferman"
> <REMOVETHISbadgolfer…@gmail.com> said:
> > witfal, 3/10/2008,9:19:36 PM, wrote:
> > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/t_shirt_gun
> > Where would you draw the line on what kinds of t-shirts a teenager
> > can wear to school? Would t-shirts with pornographic images or
> > suggestive words be acceptable? How about ones with offensive
> > words? What about clothing in general? Are pants that hang below
> > the crack or other clothes that show lots of skin be acceptable?
> > Should kids be allowed to wear whatever they want to school?
> No, they shouldn’t. With that in mind, what would be off-limits to
> you? How do you feel about the boy suspended because his ballpoint
> pen had a Glock logo on it? What about the girl who got suspended
> because her charm bracelet had a 1/4 inch gold revolver on it? How
> about the kindergarten boy suspended because he pointed a chicken
> wing at a classmate and said, "Bang!".
> Yet messages offensive to others are pretty much okay. Want a laugh?
> Look into the upcoming April 25th "Day of Silence", coming to a
> school district near you.
"Special issue Resident Lifetime License — United States Terrorist
Hunting Permit — Permit No. 91101 — Gun Owner — No Bag Limit."
That could easily be construed as a message of violence.
You know I am no fan of terrorists and would be glad to wear that shirt
myself. However I think school uniforms should be the law of the land.
Teenagers have way too many natural distractions already, they don’t
need messages that can be taken the wrong way. You do remember being a
teenager, don’t you?
–
"I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always
oppressive." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"witfal" <nos…@all4.me> wrote in message
news:fr4unh$u96$1@news.albasani.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On 2008-03-10 19:52:54 -0700, "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborea…@yahoo.com>
> said:
>>>> How do ANY of the above relate to wearing a patriotic t-shirt? From the
>>>> sound of it, the shirt in no way encouraged any kind of school
>>>> violence.
>>> Bingo.
>> Not exactly. There are rights, and then there’s good taste.
> Good taste doesn’t end or begin with the First Amendment. As long as
> you’re not yelling "fire", the kid’s got the right to wear that shirt.
> Every time this gets challenged, the kid wins. The school district ends
> up footing the bill.
> IMO, that bill should be paid by the moron who send him home, not by the
> taxpayer.
>> This is not a free speech issue. Remember this? "It’s so nice to have a
>> Jew in the family!"
> Horsepucky. Apples and oranges.
>> Free speech, yes. Moron, yes.
> There ya’ go.
The principal should’ve left him alone. But, if the kid can’t get a prom
date, he’s got nobody to blame but himself.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
witfal wrote:
> On 2008-03-10 19:34:56 -0700, "badgolferman"
> <REMOVETHISbadgolfer…@gmail.com> said:
>> witfal, 3/10/2008,9:19:36 PM, wrote:
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/t_shirt_gun
>> Where would you draw the line on what kinds of t-shirts a teenager can
>> wear to school? Would t-shirts with pornographic images or suggestive
>> words be acceptable? How about ones with offensive words? What about
>> clothing in general? Are pants that hang below the crack or other
>> clothes that show lots of skin be acceptable?
>> Should kids be allowed to wear whatever they want to school?
> No, they shouldn’t. With that in mind, what would be off-limits to
> you? How do you feel about the boy suspended because his ballpoint pen
> had a Glock logo on it? What about the girl who got suspended because
> her charm bracelet had a 1/4 inch gold revolver on it? How about the
> kindergarten boy suspended because he pointed a chicken wing at a
> classmate and said, "Bang!".
> Yet messages offensive to others are pretty much okay. Want a laugh?
> Look into the upcoming April 25th "Day of Silence", coming to a school
> district near you.
bringing a weapon into school should be off limits.
beyond that, nothing.
No less than half of today’s and yesterday’s literature was banned at
schools for some reason or other, for some duration- in the end, freedom
of speech trumps censorship.
Gentlemen, I give you precedents to consider in your arguments,
dissertations, et cetera:
1) Attorney- General v. a book named "naked Lunch" (William S.
Byrroughs, author)
2) "the People v. Larry Flynt"
3) Attorney- General v. a book named "John Cleland’s Memoirs of a Woman
of Pleasure"
4) Ginzburg v. United States
5) Mishkin V. New York
6) Cf. Gavin v. N.Y.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "witfal" <nos…@all4.me> wrote in message
> news:fr4rn5$qn1$2@news.albasani.net…
>> On 2008-03-10 19:40:13 -0700, "Reasoned Insanity" <nowh…@cox.net> said:
>>> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolfer…@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:xn0fnj598207hr000@news.east.cox.net…
>>>> witfal, 3/10/2008,9:19:36 PM, wrote:
>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/t_shirt_gun
>>>> Where would you draw the line on what kinds of t-shirts a teenager can
>>>> wear to school? Would t-shirts with pornographic images or suggestive
>>>> words be acceptable? How about ones with offensive words? What about
>>>> clothing in general? Are pants that hang below the crack or other
>>>> clothes that show lots of skin be acceptable?
>>>> Should kids be allowed to wear whatever they want to school?
>>> How do ANY of the above relate to wearing a patriotic t-shirt? From the
>>> sound of it, the shirt in no way encouraged any kind of school violence.
>> Bingo.
> Not exactly. There are rights, and then there’s good taste. My neighbor’s a
> funeral director, and occasionally, he comes up with a really good funeral
> joke. Would he be within his rights to tell such a joke to a grieving
> family? Of course. Would he be a moron to do so? Of course.
> Considering how many shootings there’ve been in schools, the kid was a
> moron. He shouldn’t have been punished, but nobody else should’ve been
> punished for calling him a moron, either.
> This is not a free speech issue. Remember this? "It’s so nice to have a Jew
> in the family!"
> Free speech, yes. Moron, yes.
one cannot legislate taste.
if they could, comedians would be out of business.
black standups cant make fun of themselves for being black, nor poke
holes at their white audiences.
lesbians cant flirt with men’s wives on stage, and gay people cant
randomly point and yell ‘homophobe’ if a straight man jumps too high
when he feels his ass pinched.
white men cant complain of their wives, or moan how being single sucks
(any single ladies in the crowd? nice tits, babe!)
Rodny Dangerfield….cant tell anyone about his lack of respect
and rednecks would never have left the swamp.
the 3 stooges- how far would they get today with their popguns that read
"bang!" when they pulled the trigger?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
badgolferman wrote:
> witfal, 3/10/2008,10:44:33 PM, wrote:
>> On 2008-03-10 19:34:56 -0700, "badgolferman"
>> <REMOVETHISbadgolfer…@gmail.com> said:
>>> witfal, 3/10/2008,9:19:36 PM, wrote:
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/t_shirt_gun
>>> Where would you draw the line on what kinds of t-shirts a teenager
>>> can wear to school? Would t-shirts with pornographic images or
>>> suggestive words be acceptable? How about ones with offensive
>>> words? What about clothing in general? Are pants that hang below
>>> the crack or other clothes that show lots of skin be acceptable?
>>> Should kids be allowed to wear whatever they want to school?
>> No, they shouldn’t. With that in mind, what would be off-limits to
>> you? How do you feel about the boy suspended because his ballpoint
>> pen had a Glock logo on it? What about the girl who got suspended
>> because her charm bracelet had a 1/4 inch gold revolver on it? How
>> about the kindergarten boy suspended because he pointed a chicken
>> wing at a classmate and said, "Bang!".
>> Yet messages offensive to others are pretty much okay. Want a laugh?
>> Look into the upcoming April 25th "Day of Silence", coming to a
>> school district near you.
> "Special issue Resident Lifetime License — United States Terrorist
> Hunting Permit — Permit No. 91101 — Gun Owner — No Bag Limit."
> That could easily be construed as a message of violence.
> You know I am no fan of terrorists and would be glad to wear that shirt
> myself. However I think school uniforms should be the law of the land.
> Teenagers have way too many natural distractions already, they don’t
> need messages that can be taken the wrong way. You do remember being a
> teenager, don’t you?
as a high school student, i remember learning about all sorts of
freedoms and how these freedoms were in direct contrast to the
totalitarian policies of the Communist Russians.
I remember my educators teaching from an early age to foster our own
independent thoughts, to think clearly our stance on life, to have
political opinions, and not be subverted by marketing nor political
one-liners to engender an opinion blindly and without thought.
they taught my generation well- although i was informed just before
graduation that marketing might be removed from the school
curriculum…it appears that, with names like COca-Cola trying to buy
partnerships with school boards, they want some control over what is
taught in school, and well- a population which becomes TOO marketing-
savvy doesnt bode well for profits, see?
wowsers, here we are again, full circle.
the school board no longer wants children to think for themselves,
having already prioritised corporate concerns over that of properly
educating children.
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> The principal should’ve left him alone. But, if the kid can’t get a prom
> date, he’s got nobody to blame but himself.
something tells me this guy could well be treated as a ‘John Galt’.
Reasoned Insanity wrote:
> From the sound of it, the shirt in no way encouraged any kind of school violence.
———————————————————————————————
The shirt bears the image of a military sidearm and on the
front pocket says "Volunteer Homeland Security." On the
back, over another image of the weapon, are the words
"Special issue Resident Lifetime License — United States
Terrorist Hunting Permit — Permit No. 91101 — Gun
Owner — No Bag Limit."
——————————————————————————————–
No C- student will get the wrong impression from this and act out
against Arab-Americans.
witfal wrote:
> Good taste doesn’t end or begin with the First Amendment. As long as
> you’re not yelling "fire", the kid’s got the right to wear that shirt.
> Every time this gets challenged, the kid wins. The school district
> ends up footing the bill.
Not quite: www.lsc.state.oh.us/membersonly/freedomspeech.pdf
And don’t forget the fairly recent "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" 5-4 decision by
the Supreme court, which allowed schools to regulate student speech
even off school property.
"witfal" <nos…@all4.me> wrote in message
news:fr5q58$hjj$1@news.albasani.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On 2008-03-11 03:55:15 -0700, sue_dbast…@lawyer.com said:
>> witfal wrote:
>>> Good taste doesn’t end or begin with the First Amendment. As long as
>>> you’re not yelling "fire", the kid’s got the right to wear that shirt.
>>> Every time this gets challenged, the kid wins. The school district
>>> ends up footing the bill.
>> Not quite: www.lsc.state.oh.us/membersonly/freedomspeech.pdf
>> And don’t forget the fairly recent "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" 5-4 decision by
>> the Supreme court, which allowed schools to regulate student speech
>> even off school property.
> Better said might have been, "Most every time…".
> This shirt is innocuous at worst.
If it had been my son wearing that shirt, he would’ve told the principal
"I’m the customer, and you work for ME. But, just to be fair, let’s poll 200
students and see what they think about this. Maybe I’m wrong."