so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about
numbers, and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss, i
want you to take a little time to walk us through your math.
1. what is your gross loss when you sell seven vehicles for $19,725
each, and you, the dealer, gets invoiced a net of $11,189 each for them
by the manufacturer? [no, "dealer invoice" doesn't count because that's
not the actual number you pay.]
2. and what is that loss after your total overheads [taxes, real estate,
utilities, admin, insurance, advertising (net, not gross), and
preparation labor of $1,052 per vehicle is accounted for?
3. and finally, what is the total loss to the owner of the franchise
after you’ve paid your sales schlep their $593 commission per vehicle?
–
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim beam <m…@privacy.net> wrote in
news:65udnSwiYNlIrurWnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about
> numbers, and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss, i
> want you to take a little time to walk us through your math.
> 1. what is your gross loss when you sell seven vehicles for $19,725
> each, and you, the dealer, gets invoiced a net of $11,189 each for them
> by the manufacturer? [no, "dealer invoice" doesn't count because that's
> not the actual number you pay.]
> 2. and what is that loss after your total overheads [taxes, real estate,
> utilities, admin, insurance, advertising (net, not gross), and
> preparation labor of $1,052 per vehicle is accounted for?
> 3. and finally, what is the total loss to the owner of the franchise
> after you’ve paid your sales schlep their $593 commission per vehicle?
"Mike" will be a while getting back to you. He’s gone to one of those
"gentlemens’ clubs" that line the highways in PA.
–
Tegger
On 02/13/2010 04:06 PM, Tegger wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> jim beam<m…@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:65udnSwiYNlIrurWnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>> so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about
>> numbers, and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss, i
>> want you to take a little time to walk us through your math.
>> 1. what is your gross loss when you sell seven vehicles for $19,725
>> each, and you, the dealer, gets invoiced a net of $11,189 each for them
>> by the manufacturer? [no, "dealer invoice" doesn't count because that's
>> not the actual number you pay.]
>> 2. and what is that loss after your total overheads [taxes, real estate,
>> utilities, admin, insurance, advertising (net, not gross), and
>> preparation labor of $1,052 per vehicle is accounted for?
>> 3. and finally, what is the total loss to the owner of the franchise
>> after you’ve paid your sales schlep their $593 commission per vehicle?
> "Mike" will be a while getting back to you. He’s gone to one of those
> "gentlemens’ clubs" that line the highways in PA.
i think the entertainment will have a better grip on what numbers mean
than he does.
–
nomina rutrum rutrum
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:20:52 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about
> numbers, and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss, i
> want you to take a little time to walk us through your math.
Unfortunately, sometimes Mike gets confused. He’s confused Toyota with GM.
For years GM sold their cars at a loss, masking it with profits from their
financial arms, like Ditech, GMAC, etc. When the markets collapsed and
mortgages went bust, GM no longer had a profit to show, and *we* had to
bail it’s sorry ass out, instead of letting it go under like it should
have.
Where did you ever get that idea? What I said was, according to industry
statistics and from I know what we did in our Toyotas stores, that Toyota
BUYERS pay 20% to 30% MORE to drive home their Toyota than if they had
purchased a domestic of the same size and with the same equipment.
We always made a higher gross on EVERY Toyota we sold. WE LOVED Toyota
buyers who had the perception the were better and were willing to pay MORE
to drive one home LOL
"jim beam" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:65udnSwiYNlIrurWnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about numbers,
> and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss,
On 02/14/2010 07:45 AM, Mike Hunter wrote:
> Where did you ever get that idea? What I said was, according to industry
> statistics and from I know what we did in our Toyotas stores, that Toyota
> BUYERS pay 20% to 30% MORE to drive home their Toyota than if they had
> purchased a domestic of the same size and with the same equipment.
> We always made a higher gross on EVERY Toyota we sold. WE LOVED Toyota
> buyers who had the perception the were better and were willing to pay MORE
> to drive one home LOL
so by your bizarro logic, a vehicle that lasts twice as long, costs less
to run and less to maintain should cost less??? why aren’t you still
working in sales mike???
oh, and let’s just ignore the fact that you’ve just contradicted your
"toyota sell for a loss" statement shall we?
> "jim beam"<m…@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:65udnSwiYNlIrurWnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net…
>> so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about numbers,
>> and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss,
–
nomina rutrum rutrum
(Cross posting deleted, automatically)
4cy, get real? In many case one can buy a domestic with a V6 for less than
a Toyota with an underpowered 4cy that can not get out of its own way.
You bet we where happy to get the gullible Toyota buyers to pay us a huge
profit on the paint sealant, fabric guard, floor mats, gold package, rust
proofing, door edge guards, side moldings, paint stripes, window etching,
"free" tires for life, "free" inspections, high priced term life insurance
on our Toyota 2% higher interest rate financing, as well as pay our extra
$35 per hour shop rates, when our same techs worked on Toyotas LOL
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-2F9B18.10585214022010@nothing.attdns.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article <4b7818c3$0$10200$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>,
> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>> What I said was, according to industry
>> statistics and from I know what we did in our Toyotas stores, that Toyota
>> BUYERS pay 20% to 30% MORE to drive home their Toyota than if they had
>> purchased a domestic of the same size and with the same equipment.
> Define "same equipment".
> I bet you’ll find that a GM engine isn’t the "same equipment" as a
> Toyota engine of the same size and from the same period.
> But you want to continue to insist that a 4 cylinder passenger car
> engine is a 4 cylinder passenger car engine–in other words, you insist
> that they’re the "same equipment".
> Same with transmissions, right?
> Oh–and let’s not forget the years of Toyota taking care of its
> customers while, during the same period, GM and Ford and Chrysler were
> busy telling those who bought their cars to "fuck off, it’s yours now"
> whenever something happened that plainly shouldn’t have.
> People were happy to pay 20% more not to have to deal with GM equipment
> and how GM treated those who bought its cars.
On 02/14/2010 09:21 AM, Mike Hunter wrote:
> (Cross posting deleted, automatically)
> 4cy, get real? In many case one can buy a domestic with a V6 for less than
> a Toyota with an underpowered 4cy that can not get out of its own way.
> You bet we where happy to get the gullible Toyota buyers to pay us a huge
> profit on the paint sealant, fabric guard, floor mats, gold package, rust
> proofing, door edge guards, side moldings, paint stripes, window etching,
> "free" tires for life, "free" inspections, high priced term life insurance
> on our Toyota 2% higher interest rate financing, as well as pay our extra
> $35 per hour shop rates, when our same techs worked on Toyotas LOL
so how much do toyota lose on each sale mike?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-2F9B18.10585214022010@nothing.attdns.com…
>> In article<4b7818c3$0$10200$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>,
>> "Mike Hunter"<Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>>> What I said was, according to industry
>>> statistics and from I know what we did in our Toyotas stores, that Toyota
>>> BUYERS pay 20% to 30% MORE to drive home their Toyota than if they had
>>> purchased a domestic of the same size and with the same equipment.
>> Define "same equipment".
>> I bet you’ll find that a GM engine isn’t the "same equipment" as a
>> Toyota engine of the same size and from the same period.
>> But you want to continue to insist that a 4 cylinder passenger car
>> engine is a 4 cylinder passenger car engine–in other words, you insist
>> that they’re the "same equipment".
>> Same with transmissions, right?
>> Oh–and let’s not forget the years of Toyota taking care of its
>> customers while, during the same period, GM and Ford and Chrysler were
>> busy telling those who bought their cars to "fuck off, it’s yours now"
>> whenever something happened that plainly shouldn’t have.
>> People were happy to pay 20% more not to have to deal with GM equipment
>> and how GM treated those who bought its cars.
–
nomina rutrum rutrum
Why would one compare a 4cy (full of fat) with a V6 (no fat?) The
comparison is to engine size and HP available. Why pay more for a smaller
engine simply because of ones perception that it is better? We could
never figure that out, we just took "ones" money
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-488AB9.13460614022010@nothing.attdns.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article <4b782f79$0$10195$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>,
> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>> (Cross posting fixed)
>> 4cy, get real? In many case one can buy a domestic with a V6 for less
>> than
>> a Toyota with an underpowered 4cy that can not get out of its own way.
> Yes, and I can buy five pounds of McDonald’s hamburger for less than
> going to Morton’s and getting a 12 ounce steak.
> What’s your point?
>> You bet we where happy to get the gullible Toyota buyers to pay us a huge
>> profit on the paint sealant, fabric guard, floor mats, gold package, rust
>> proofing, door edge guards, side moldings, paint stripes, window etching,
>> "free" tires for life, "free" inspections, high priced term life
>> insurance
>> on our Toyota 2% higher interest rate financing, as well as pay our extra
>> $35 per hour shop rates, when our same techs worked on Toyotas LOL
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>> news:elmop-2F9B18.10585214022010@nothing.attdns.com…
>> > In article <4b7818c3$0$10200$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>,
>> > "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>> >> What I said was, according to industry
>> >> statistics and from I know what we did in our Toyotas stores, that
>> >> Toyota
>> >> BUYERS pay 20% to 30% MORE to drive home their Toyota than if they had
>> >> purchased a domestic of the same size and with the same equipment.
>> > Define "same equipment".
>> > I bet you’ll find that a GM engine isn’t the "same equipment" as a
>> > Toyota engine of the same size and from the same period.
>> > But you want to continue to insist that a 4 cylinder passenger car
>> > engine is a 4 cylinder passenger car engine–in other words, you insist
>> > that they’re the "same equipment".
>> > Same with transmissions, right?
>> > Oh–and let’s not forget the years of Toyota taking care of its
>> > customers while, during the same period, GM and Ford and Chrysler were
>> > busy telling those who bought their cars to "fuck off, it’s yours now"
>> > whenever something happened that plainly shouldn’t have.
>> > People were happy to pay 20% more not to have to deal with GM equipment
>> > and how GM treated those who bought its cars.
In message <4b78472f$0$10190$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter
<Mikehunt2@lycos.?.invalid> writes
>Why would one compare a 4cy (full of fat) with a V6 (no fat?) The
>comparison is to engine size and HP available. Why pay more for a smaller
>engine simply because of ones perception that it is better? We could
>never figure that out, we just took "ones" money
Your understanding of engines and their dynamic is astoundingly
ignorant. For the same BHP and torque, as you increase the number of
cylinders the fuel consumption rockets, that is why all the modern small
cars in Europe and Asia are turning their backs on four cylinder engines
for 1.0 and 1.2 litre cars and going to three cylinder engines. Very
slightly rougher at idle speeds but once on the move, unnoticeable and
more fuel efficient, which means you don’t only fill the tank less, but
you pollute less too.
—
Clive
That may be your opinion but if one drives a 4cy Camry in the mountainous
areas of the US it will average FEWER MPG than if one drove a V6 Camry in
the same area. The reason being the greater torque of the V6 will allow
the tranny to remain in higher gears more of the time.
That is true of other cars as well. My one son has a 2010 Mustang V6 and
a 2010 Mustang V8. The V8 constantly averages 2 MPG more than the V6, even
though the V6 is rated 4 MPG higher by the EPA.
"Clive" <Cl…@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:EyWKrzXeEFeLFw1E@yewbank.demon.co.uk…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In message <4b78472f$0$10190$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter
> <Mikehunt2@lycos.?.invalid> writes
>>Why would one compare a 4cy (full of fat) with a V6 (no fat?) The
>>comparison is to engine size and HP available. Why pay more for a
>>smaller
>>engine simply because of ones perception that it is better? We could
>>never figure that out, we just took "ones" money
> Your understanding of engines and their dynamic is astoundingly ignorant.
> For the same BHP and torque, as you increase the number of cylinders the
> fuel consumption rockets, that is why all the modern small cars in Europe
> and Asia are turning their backs on four cylinder engines for 1.0 and 1.2
> litre cars and going to three cylinder engines. Very slightly rougher at
> idle speeds but once on the move, unnoticeable and more fuel efficient,
> which means you don’t only fill the tank less, but you pollute less too.
> —
> Clive
What is your point? I never said Toyota made bad stuff, Toyota makes great
stuff but today so does every other manufacturer. What I said was one
need not spend 20% to 30% more to get a good vehicle. Any car will last
that long if given the proper preventive maintenance. We serviced
thousands of fleet cars that were run up to 300,000 miles or more, when I
owned my fleet service business.
One of my collector cars is a 1971 Pinto that has 301 thousand on the
odometer and has the original drive train. One is a 1941 with well over
170,000 miles on the odometer, it too has the original V12 drive train.
"in2dadark" <in2dad…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fe4b2ea4-c1ed-4a2e-b890-9962c7799d5e@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com…
On Feb 14, 10:45 am, "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Where did you ever get that idea? What I said was, according to industry
> statistics and from I know what we did in our Toyotas stores, that Toyota
> BUYERS pay 20% to 30% MORE to drive home their Toyota than if they had
> purchased a domestic of the same size and with the same equipment.
> We always made a higher gross on EVERY Toyota we sold. WE LOVED Toyota
> buyers who had the perception the were better and were willing to pay MORE
> to drive one home LOL
> "jim beam" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:65udnSwiYNlIrurWnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@speakeasy.net…
> > so mike, since you say you were in sales, and sales is all about
> > numbers,
> > and because you say toyota sell their vehicles at a loss,- Hide quoted
> > text –
> – Show quoted text –
I have 165,000 miles of ’perception’ sitting in my driveway. I’ve
never gotten much past 60k with a GM before I got a whole different
‘perception’…
Don’t you mean THINKING something is BETTER is what gets Toyota buyer to 20%
to 30% more? LOL
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-26CFBD.16193414022010@nothing.attdns.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> incorrect top posting fixed
> In article <4b78472f$0$10190$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>,
> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>> news:elmop-488AB9.13460614022010@nothing.attdns.com…
>> > In article <4b782f79$0$10195$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>,
>> > "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote:
>> >> (Cross posting fixed)
>> >> 4cy, get real? In many case one can buy a domestic with a V6 for less
>> >> than
>> >> a Toyota with an underpowered 4cy that can not get out of its own way.
>> > Yes, and I can buy five pounds of McDonald’s hamburger for less than
>> > going to Morton’s and getting a 12 ounce steak.
>> > What’s your point?
>> Why would one compare a 4cy (full of fat) with a V6 (no fat?) The
>> comparison is to engine size and HP available. Why pay more for a
>> smaller
>> engine simply because of ones perception that it is better? We could
>> never figure that out, we just took "ones" money
> My Cunter thinks that "MORE IS BETTER!" Imagine that.
In message <4b798e16$0$10187$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter
<Mikehunt2@lycos.?.invalid> writes
>Don’t you mean THINKING something is BETTER is what gets Toyota buyer to 20%
>to 30% more? LOL
I’m quite puzzled by this, because my Toyota didn’t cost me any more
than any other car I could have bought for a comparable
power/size/weight, I’m talking forecourt prices here, not the 10% that I
got off of it. Further, VW, Merc. And Audi, amongst others cost more.
Whilst I’ve got your attention (have I?) "Which?" Says of the Dodge
Avenger that one of it failings is brake fade. I’ve had brake fade
once, now I won’t touch anything that doesn’t have four disc brakes.
Drum brakes on such a large vehicle shows an inability to catch up with
technology, or a careless attitude towards it’s buyers safety.
—
Clive
On 02/15/2010 12:55 PM, Clive wrote:
> In message <4b798e16$0$10187$ce5e7…@news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter
> <Mikehunt2@lycos.?.invalid> writes
>> Don’t you mean THINKING something is BETTER is what gets Toyota buyer
>> to 20%
>> to 30% more? LOL
> I’m quite puzzled by this, because my Toyota didn’t cost me any more
> than any other car I could have bought for a comparable
> power/size/weight, I’m talking forecourt prices here, not the 10% that I
> got off of it. Further, VW, Merc. And Audi, amongst others cost more.
> Whilst I’ve got your attention (have I?) "Which?" Says of the Dodge
> Avenger that one of it failings is brake fade. I’ve had brake fade once,
> now I won’t touch anything that doesn’t have four disc brakes. Drum
> brakes on such a large vehicle shows an inability to catch up with
> technology, or a careless attitude towards it’s buyers safety.
it’s not "careless", it’s a financial decision. it’s cheaper to buy off
the families of the bereaved than it is to build the car with better
brakes. and what are the consequences when you know you can buy off
any political heat should it arise?
–
nomina rutrum rutrum